Jon says, “From Bellamy again. Strange tune – I wonder if Bellamy wrote it. It’s great though and a really dark song. I think the implication may be that the step mother has instructed big brother John to stab his step brother, and he’s done so despite loving his brother like… Er, a brother. Horrific really, or maybe it’s just an accident.” It’s another song that Fay has recorded for Looking Glass.” Also known as The Two Brothers and Child Ballad #49, Mainly Norfolk adds to the story quoting the sleeve notes written by A.L. Lloyd to Bellamy’s recording found originally on his LP The Fox Jumps Over The Parson’s Gate. Follow this link and you’ll see Lloyd describe this song as having many variants across many different cultures, with differing reasons behind the deadly deed, everything from arguments over land to incestuous love. I rather like Jon’s interpretation though, as it seems to fit this set of lyrics well. Mudcat will offer a few variations and this link here makes the Child/Scottish connection obvious, scroll down the lyric set to find related posts at the bottom. Those looking for Ballamy’s version are directed to the double CD set Fair England’s Shore on Fellside (FECD216), a massive 38 tracks!
You can buy the August digital album now from all good download stores:
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You can hear Fay Hield’s version of Two Brothers at her website. The CD will be out real soon, and I’m looking forward to enjoy it after listening to this gem.
I thought this was just stunning… and the better and more poignant for the possible storylines not being uncovered… if you accept the tale as an unhappy accident of fighting play become tragically real between 2 young boys aware, but not sharing, negative family emotions. The possibilities remain intriguingly endless. Just brilliant, and a strong contender for the August vote. Loving the cover for the July album, by-the-way!
Peter Bellamy’s tune is not a million miles from Belle Stewart’s, which is the version I’ve recently learned – I always assumed that’s where Peter had got it, too.
According to the notes on Bellamy’s album he learnt the song from a recording by Lucy Stewart, so it’s in the Stewart family anyway. The Belle Stewart version that I know is on an album seven years younger than Bellamy’s.
More about Two Pretty Boys from the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at the English Folk Dance and Song Society.
There are 3 records of Two Pretty Boys in the Library having been collected from members of the Stewart family in Scotland.
http://tinyurl.com/twoprettyboys1
We used the Roud number to cross reference against different titles for the song. When searched on Roud No. 38, this rises to an impressive 204 records, with titles including The Cruel Brother, Little Willie, Martyr John, The Rolling of the Stones, or the Two Brothers, and with versions collected in Mississippi, Kentucky, New York and North Carolina, as well as from Scotland.
http://tinyurl.com/twoprettyboys2
If you wish to see more detail on each record, change the ‘output’ to ‘record’ and press ‘submit query’.
There are no records of the song in the Take 6 archive.
We use the Roud index and the Take 6 online collections in the search for information on Jon’s selections.
For more information, or to carry out your own search for songs, please visit http://www.efdss.org/front/access-the-library-online/access-the-library-online/115
If you need any help accessing the library online or have any questions, please contact the VWML on 020 7485 2206 or library@efdss.org.
Good stuff. I know this one from Nic Jones’s version, and I think you’re a bit ahead – this incongruously sprightly tune works well. I like the lack of a motive – you can think what you like about why one brother killed the other, and people have been for as long as the song’s been sung! I think quite a few of the old ballads are like this – they show senseless or incomprehensible events and concentrate on how people deal with them.
This is also sung by Elizabeth Stewart – daughter of Lucy Stewart. This family of settled travellers are known as the Stewarts of Fetterangus presumably to distinguish them from their cousins the Stewarts of Blair. The tune she uses is identical to the one that Jon uses.
It was first recorded by her on a cassette – “Atween You and Me” in 1992 (Hightop Imagery HTI 001) and then repeated on “Binnorie” EICD002 in the series Traveller Traditions of North-East Scotland. It is the same recording as far as I know.
There is a review of the record:
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/e_stewrt.htm
Good heavens above! Two years since someone wrote a comment on this song. I have only heard Fay Hield’s version of this which is excellent. Another sad story I am afraid. Jon sings it nicely enough so no complaints.
I think this was probably written by an unhappy/jealous/malicious step brother or stepmother who purged their feelings in song rather than the actual deed.
Rather like the scene in Great Expectations where Magwich is trying to hint to Master Pip, rather than telling him directly, that he is his benefactor i.e.
‘and suppose a young gentleman received sums of money from an unknown person’. I wanted to give Pip a good shakin’ as he took ages to catch the drift!
My first reaction on seeing the title of the song was to think of Rolf Harris….but The sentiments of this song are in direct contrast to those in ‘Two little boys’
@Muzza: Great Expectations was a great film and worked beautifully in black and white. The scene with Magwich would not have been half as terrifying in glorious Technicolour.
As far away from Rolf Harris as you could get with this song.
@Diana……@Diana…….got it …..
Your Moderated message was the one (Brown AdamAug 5th 10:47am.)
That’s the sort of clue that I need to track it down
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for me to come out of Comyn’s Bardic Closet.
@Muzza it certainly is m’dearie and about ime too. Glad you solved the mystery then – I always read back a few songs in case I have missed anything – typical nosy female I expect you are thinking. Not sure that I am though only with AFSAD cos people do write later I have found.
Two years later, here’s my version – also very heavily indebted to Bellamy (I don’t think it’s possible to be just slightly influenced by Bellamy!).
I heard Elizabeth Stewart sing this at our folk club just a month ago and a fine version she did too.
How times change…………..I’ll bet many people have dropped a great song- ‘Two little boys’ from their repertoire
Just a reminder for all you songsters out there…………
the annual ‘unaccompanied singing’ competition ‘Trad2Mad’ run by Islington folk club has a closing date of 31st October and that will be upon us before we know it.
I shall have another go this year
here I am ……….seven hours later….all alone…………..did I just see a Tumbleweed drift past ?
@Muzza see Frankie’s Trade…..your not alone……
Huzzah Linda
Sad to say that, nowadays, boys stabbing boys is well and truly back in fashion !!!!
My goodness……ref my comment in 2016…..we had hoped the problem of stabbings would have been at a peak then…..what a tragedy that it has magnified and no solution is in sight.
Sadly……no comment…..just a despairing sigh.
I wonder if that rascal Admin Simon knows that some of us…….
are still clinging to his excellent work of arranging .. .AFSAD…way back in 2010.
It has certainly made a difference to my life over the years…
Thanks Simon and Jon….and Techie Ben and all others that are involved.
(even though they spring these, horrible, gruesome songs upon us now and then!)
DITTO